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Mixed Use Apartment Proposal for Fountain Square

A new proposal has been filed with the Indianapolis Department of Development for a multi-story mixed-use building on Prospect Street, just east of Santorini. The developer is Jackson Development, with architecture from Blackline:

prospect4

prospect3 prospect2 prospect1

There are some quibbles, namely a lack of landscaping along Prospect. But overall, this is a relatively solid infill project.

 

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43 Responses to “ “Mixed Use Apartment Proposal for Fountain Square”

  1. T says:

    I agree that for the most part its a solid project but the design could use further development. It’s not on par with most blackline projects and aside from everything else it beings ti the table,it doesn’t bring anything remarkable or interesting with it. But any development along prospect is good because itll spur further development and obv. that’s positive…… but im still hungup on the design. Just. ..a bit monolithic but somehow bland and forgettable.

  2. Tony Jackson says:

    This is not bland and it has a nice two tone color to it with the green, I also like the last photo/pix with the way it shows 5 floors than drops to 4 with the brick part at 2 or 3 floors , in other words this design is pretty neat and ads a cool vive to this area, Ie b . ripple, Virginia av etc. style.

  3. Jim says:

    I think it’s solid overall but it does lack a street presence that I think could be tweaked. It doesn’t provide the right amount of engagement at the pedestrian street level. It needs some much deeper overhangs over the doorways to make it more people friendly for those many Indy bad weather days. Make this thing stand out more and please use high quality materials.

  4. Pat says:

    Typical of Blackline projects to be somewhat neglectful the street level experience. This is one of Indy’s most exciting corridors/ neighborhoods that is undergoing an big transformation, but the architecture seems to be in its own vacuum.

    I don’t mind the building in general. Surely giving up a space on either side of the building for bulb outs flanking the parking and adding trees would not be frowned upon by anyone.

  5. ahow628 says:

    I’m glad to see Fountain Square development start to move east. It has been a long time coming.

    I like the design. Specifically, I like the setbacks of the upper floors. Villagio, Slate, and Mozzo all seem to kind of loom over VA Ave, so this is a nice change of pace.

    You know what would really help? A Cultural Trail extension heading east along Prospect.

    • T says:

      I would love that. Maybe differentiate it from the cultural trail but if you had it on the north side of prospect, protected from the road with parking it could connected up near the Mexican restaurant at virginia/prospect. When I bike down to the fountain I take woodlawn, prospect might as well be a highway the way they designed it. But an investment like that would surely spur development down to the railway/pleasant run.

      I still am not a fan of the building, it lacks facade articulation especially considering the widest most buildings are in this area is 30-40′ it just seems somewhat freshmen looking. That’s my only qualm really, that and the lack of trees out front.

  6. Ted McClure says:

    This is an awesome, very well thought out project. I am the Listing Broker ( along with Kathy Brown Broker) who represented the Seller – Taki & Jeanette Sawi in the sale of this 1+/- acre property to Carter Jackson the developer.

    We had four offers on this property, but ultimately choose Carter Jackson due to his reputation for quality projects.

    I am excited to see this project move forward and thank Taki & Jeanette Sawi and Carter Jackson for making this happen.

    Ted McClure / McClure Commercial & Industrial Real Estate

  7. Paul says:

    So are they going to demo the old house on the property?

    • T says:

      yes, Kathleen Blackham, the planner on the project stated that they intend on demolishing them. Too bad they couldn’t pick up and move the brick one, the duplex is less appealing. And the santorini restaurant is to remain.

      Hopefully they’ll at least salvage what they can from the buildings. It’s frustrating how trigger happy indianapolis is with demolishing structures especially on a street with so many vacant lots as it is.

      • ahow628 says:

        “Hopefully they’ll at least salvage what they can from the buildings. It’s frustrating how trigger happy indianapolis is with demolishing structures especially on a street with so many vacant lots as it is.”

        Unfortunately, Prospect is too wide and too high speed for small dwellings to be attractive here. That would be a major benefit of a CT extension (much like along VA Ave) since it would give this area some much needed road dieting. The road is 50ft wide at this point which includes 2x 8ft parking lanes plus 2x 4ft unprotected bike lanes, which leaves a pair of 13ft travel lanes. Those are HUGE and contribute to the 45mph traffic.

        • T says:

          I know, I wouldn’t move it down prospect I’d move it to one of the many vacant lots in the neighborhood. Prospect is an inappropriate location for a house even though many of them have been there for ages. And the road gets quite a bit narrower east of state st, 10′ shift? I’ve done some mockups on streetmix.net for both sides of prospect.

          Prospect east of state should have angled parking to choke down the travel lanes and a protected 8′ bike lane like the cultural trail, east of state you could have the same except parking would have to be parallel and probably on just one side. if you were having landscaping in it.

        • T says:

          PS. I’m not just referring to demolishing this kind of building but the two that were at muskingum/michigan, among others. Indy seems to think that demolishing something replaces it with something better but it chips away at the identity and culture of a neighborhood and replaces it with something sterile, think Mission bay in san francisco vs the castro, one has an older mix of buildings and culture, the other is all new construction and a sterile abomination.

          • Bertie says:

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but this proposal at least seems to save the homes on Laurel Street, which, from the original plans, originally looked like they might get demolished.

  8. Ben says:

    This looks fine, but I wish it were going in on the other side of the street, or down the street a little further. Literally almost any other parcel immediately east on either side of the street is non-historic, parking oriented, and/or vacant. Wish there were some way to get the brick building moved to where the KFC was, even if there’s no saving the foursquare.

  9. chris says:

    Nice project. Good Architecture. This is a huge improvement to the area. Especially when just 5 blocks east you are in the “hood”!
    This is a big boost to the Fountain Square area. Makes me happy that I live in the area.I here that the old used car lot was sold too. Awesome. Now all we have to do is get the old KFC removed.
    Taki great Job!!!

  10. Indy Chris says:

    Great boost to this area!! I really hope the momentum continues to stretch to State Street. There are some fantastic old commercial buildings that are just ripe for new life.

    However, as much as this is great for the area, I’m a little upset that this project calls for the demolition of the two homes that stand there. I’m particularly saddened about the old red brick one which is unique to that area where most homes around are wood-framed. It would be fantastic if that particular structure could be part of this development.

    • T says:

      it’s in such an awkward location too far from the street, an easier option would be to pick it up and move it. You can offer the house for free if it’s moved. Plenty of companies have done this. Saves them demolition costs and someone else gets a cheap property. Moving a house is like 15-20 a sqft, so like 30-50k to move this property. Probably at least 15k to demolish it.

      And why stop at state, we need any kind of development east of state as long as it isn’t another liqour store or gas station.

      • Chris Barnett says:

        I doubt there will be much development momentum east of State until:

        1) Further demolition and cleanup happens at the Citizens Coke Plant site,
        2) The Pleasant Run Trail is extended from its dead end at “Prospect Falls” (where the creek crosses Prospect under the Belt Line rail bridge) across the Citizens site to Twin Aire, and improved along English to the Belt Line where it rejoins the creek,
        3) Something happens with the old Twin Aire Drive In site and the former bowling alley site south of Kroger.

        Once Twin Aire has something happening, then there’s redevelopment momentum pushing on Prospect from both ends.

        I think it’s important that there be some attention to creating a mixed-use neighborhood…one that includes good jobs for non-college-educated folks as well as more officey and creative endeavors. Twin Aire and Prospect east of State have good possibilities for that.

        • T says:

          you haven’t been around there recently have you? coke plant is almost all gone, 2 smokestacks left and the tower, that’s it. Pleasant run bike trail to be reconnected, timing is tbd but they’re almost done with coke plant. and I think something good happening in twinaire would only happen after prospect, that area is….. less than desirable and there’s no mixed income it’s all one bracket near the bottom. If anything were to develop in twinaire i can see it being a gigantic low income development. But I hope that isn’t the case because then the prospects for my house would go out the window like a bag of trash from a pickup truck.

          • Chris Barnett says:

            I apologize to the Moderators for pursuing this somewhat off-topic discussion, but it’s one I’ve been immersed in for some years.

            To T: In fact I was just past the area last weekend, and still own a house in the vicinity that my son is getting ready to move into.

            The coke batteries are still there on the Citizens site, not just the smokestacks. They tore down the buildings but the huge metal ovens are still there, exposed.

            There’s a huge and conspicuous construction yard at the west end of the site where the high-rise blue gas tank used to be.

            First, to be clear: the Pleasant Run Trail has NEVER connected across the Citizens property. It dead-ends at Prospect Falls, then becomes a sidewalk trail back to Keystone, a newer side-path along Keystone, then along the Citizens site to sidewalk again past the Twin Aire shopping plazas. It doesn’t become a real trail again until English Ave. meets the creek east of Twin Aire. All in all, about a mile of “real trail” is missing.

            Secondly, “incomes” go up in Christian Park, just east of the shopping center on English. It’s a stable, working-class neighborhood with a fairly high homeownership percentage, and is probably part of the reason Kroger, Chase, and Ace Hardware are still open in Twin Aire even after the RTO places have left.

            Improving the “missing mile” of trail from its dead end on Prospect over to English would provide a real, safe, and beautiful connection from FS to IRV and create some new “beachfront” property in Twin Aire. The value of truly connecting three park gems…Ellenberger, Christian, and Garfield…cannot be overstated.

            That would, indeed, drive additional redevelopment just as the Fall Creek Trail extension from the Monon to Meridian St. has generated redevelopment in the Near North/Mapleton Fall Creek areas.

  11. Chris Barnett says:

    I like the mosaic look on the otherwise monolithic stair tower shown in the rendering.

    I also agree that a few feet of landscape buffer, enough for some real street trees, is missing. But in looking at the site plan, they can’t scoot it south 10 feet…they have to give up footprint. So maybe what’s needed is a deal with the city to bump out curbs and create street tree plantings that way.

    I also agree with those who say Prospect needs calming by lane narrowing. It is relatively narrow around and east of State, and it functions just fine.

    • T says:

      They have 14′ of sidewalk in front of them or at least that’s what it looked like, they have benches and bike racks, they can throw trees inbetween.

  12. Mark says:

    PEOPLE EMBRACE THE INVESTMENT IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD!!!!

    WE HAVE SPENT YEARS TRYING TO MAKE FOUNTIAN SQUARE NICER & SAFER.

    NOW THAT WE HAVE A DEVELOPER THAT WILL SPEND $5.000,000 to BUILD THIS AWESOME BUILDING…YOU ARE ALL COMPLAINING!

    I THINK THIS PROJECT IS GREAT!!!!!!

    • T says:

      because we have standards? because we expect more than the bare minimum? This is probably why indy isn’t anything special when compared to almost any other city. People here are too quick to go with “well it’s better than nothing” or “It’s fine I guess” and just accept it. They don’t do that in San Fran, Seattle, Portland, New York… even in Cincinnati.

      Design matters. Something like this is going to be around for a long time.

    • T says:

      I still don’t like this project. Aside from density is just a gigantic dates box taking up an entire city block…. but they’ve started demolition now which means constriction will follow. Wish they’d have let salvagers save the architectural columns.

  13. CHIKIN says:

    OH GOD. MOBRO is going to want $650,000 for the KFC now that this news has broken!!!

    This property need to be cleaned up!!!!!

    • T says:

      I don’t understand these pos owners that think they’re property is worth so much money. It holds back the neighborhoodse for years.

      • Chris Barnett says:

        1) Often there is “dark rent” flowing even after a business closes, because it’s cheaper for that business owner to pay rent for a while than to operate and lose more than rent. Or the franchise operator could be bankrupt, which can tie up a property.

        2) If you own a run-down property, you probably “know” it’s worth X today, and that might be less than you would sell for. But if someone else does something to improve the neighborhood around it, your property might be worth 2X in just a few short years…and that’s a lot better return than you can get in any other asset if you sell the property today. In a revitalizing neighborhood, buy-and-hold can be sound economic decision-making if you’re not paying a mortgage.

        I don’t like that second part any better than anyone else, but it’s reality.

        • T says:

          But when you’re in your late 70’s why hold out, how much time do you have left to spend what you might get for it? Not all of them have kids to pass anything on to anyway.

          And that’s not even taking into account all the abandoned tax delinquent properties that the city has been molasses to confiscate. You can start the process after 2 years of delinquency yet many of the ones in my neighborhood have been vacant/delinquent for 5 years. But I won’t go down that road and rant about Indy’s ineffective system.

          • Chris Barnett says:

            1. Especially if a senior has no kids, s/he might be looking at self-funding a stay in a life-care center, and more money for a prime asset might be the difference. Don’t be cavalier about those of us closer to the end of life than the beginning; you’ll worry about it someday too.

            2. There’s a big difference between a tax-delinquent abandoned house, and a vacant tax-current commercial building, and the two aren’t the same in any regard EXCEPT getting code compliance write-ups when violations exist.

  14. I have deleted a slew of comments. You can guess who the main target was. Carry on with project discussion.

  15. Rance Lee says:

    I am curious. Why has there been no discussion on here about Hamilton County refusing to put this on the ballot? Considering much of the justification for and budget to support this plan relies on the “Bring them from Carmel” and “Access for the poor to jobs in Hamilton County” narratives.

    There just seems to be an odd silence from proponents and planners on this key fact.

    • Fair point. In my defense I have been insanely busy with a new house.

      It is disappointing that Clay Township opted out. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Indy Connect will not be
      successful.

    • ahow628 says:

      I’d probably blame the status quo. People generally find it very difficult to do things differently than they currently do them. It is an even bigger stretch to try to get them to imagine doing things differently. Now try to get them to chip in money.

      In the end though, necessity will force the issue as the hidden costs of sprawl in Hamilton Co and other donut counties starts to manifest itself with a vengeance.

  16. ahow628 says:

    I just saw this pop up in my Twitter feed and pretty much perfectly describes Prospect east of Fountain Square.
    https://granolashotgun.com/2016/07/09/the-nature-of-the-problem/

  17. Melissa says:

    What is going to be put across from the apartments? Next to the gas station on the north side of prospect?

    • r5 says:

      Parking lot.

      • tyler says:

        are you kidding me? they bought a corner lot to build a fricken parking lot? i thought that was just going to be a temporary staging area, how does having a gas station across the street and a fricken parking lot help the neighborhood? goddammit now i’m pissed. that half of the street is going to be even trashier than it is now.

        was the development at least forced to have trees in front of their project?

  18. Angela Leddy says:

    There was a flurry of activity when the buildings were first demolished but now, nothing. Weeds are growing wild up through the fencing and nothing has happened in months. Any idea when we might expect to see some actual construction going on? I am part of the Church behind the KFC building and we are so unhappy with the eyesores that are now on both corners of Prospect and Spruce!

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